Health of our PBEM community

[Mr Grumpy]

Hi All,

As we know playing these game series H2H PBEM is a niche within a wider niche community who only play games against the AI and we are constantly reminded by the guys at WDS that the smart money is in selling these titles to people who will only ever play against the AI, that's just how it is.

However despite understandable perception that the PBEM community here is shrinking (age of members, lack of forum traffic etc...) I have been impressed over the last year or so with the amount of games that are being reported, this is partially down to the latest Tourney but I also see lots of reports from members who are neither in the Tourney and/or never post on the forum, so the good news is that the PBEM community is still alive and kicking (at the Blitz anyway) and there is plenty of activity out there! 

To support this activity is why this club has existed for the last 25 years and although some of us might not have another 25 years in us, it is great that at present the future looks bright.........

[Steel God]

I know for an absolute certainty that almost half (8 of 17) my reported games this year have been against players in their 20's, and I have 3 more games on going with 2 players in their 20's.  I don't always know the ages of my opponents so some others could be young as well.  These 20 somethings are as serious about these games as I have ever been, real students of the history, and captured by the seriousness of the games (as compared to lighter game fare).  I posted about this subject either earlier this year of late last year as I was both shocked and delighted to discover it.  And I'll go one further.....while a business model may show a company that selling their games to solo players is the best for solvency and profit, those gamers will not be with those companies ten years from now if they don't continue to pump out the newest and latest game for them to buy.  Solo gamers are engaging in digital masturbation to make themselves feel good, and after a while that will grow old for them and they will need to go find the newest and greatest fix.  A PBEM player can (and I do) play the same titles they were playing 20 years ago (just processed turn 121 of a Smolensk Campaign game this morning) and it is still as fresh and new as it was then because the opponent is different every time, and thus the challenge is different every time.  WDS can develop their AI until it can play the game like Deep Blue can play Chess and it is STILL not going to be as interesting, challenging and/or entertaining as playing a new player in an old scenario.  The PBEM community will in fact still be playing these games when WDS stops producing them and all the solo gamers have moved on to game maker de jour for their latest feel good fix.  You can chisel that in stone in my opinion.

[Krufft]

If you could attract a small percentage of the people who play World of Tanks, War Thunder and other FPS wargames to the world of hexes that might help the community grow. All of these games are multiplayer only, and they have made their creators vast amounts of money.

You might be surprised at how many "history buffs" there are in these FPS communities. Not to deny that there is a lot of toxicity in there as well.

I have spent a massive amount of time playing these FPS games as well as many hex-based "proper" wargames (SP, PzC, WitP etc.). They are a lot more similar than you might think from a cursory glance. It's all "puzzles".

[Landser34]

I've been here for a few years now but I have never found a problem in ever getting a game a lot of the guys I have played for years and I will play against newer guys that join the ladder  and will help answer any question that they have because if I never play them again they will be around for other people to play. I remember playing a long time ago people like Esher and others when I 1st joined the Blitz.and I bet I lost probably lost about out of my 1st 30 games I lost more than half  because of some of the players I played against in the beginning would pick the scenarios and had played them a few times and me being a new player had no Idea why I was getting crushed.I hope  everybody that I have played thinks that i did not take advantage of them and  like I said before that we have to keep people wanting to join.

[ShipwreckedFool]

As a younger player, I think I might have given up these games without the Blitz's ladder. The lackluster AI is a big drag and the tedium of a campaign game turn without the payoff of facing a real opponent is pretty disheartening. Just having that little spark of points on the line and a record to keep track of your performance makes me way more engaged.

[Mr Grumpy]

I know for an absolute certainty that almost half (8 of 17) my reported games this year have been against players in their 20's, and I have 3 more games on going with 2 players in their 20's.  I don't always know the ages of my opponents so some others could be young as well.  These 20 somethings are as serious about these games as I have ever been, real students of the history, and captured by the seriousness of the games (as compared to lighter game fare).  I posted about this subject either earlier this year of late last year as I was both shocked and delighted to discover it.  And I'll go one further.....while a business model may show a company that selling their games to solo players is the best for solvency and profit, those gamers will not be with those companies ten years from now if they don't continue to pump out the newest and latest game for them to buy.  Solo gamers are engaging in digital masturbation to make themselves feel good, and after a while that will grow old for them and they will need to go find the newest and greatest fix.  A PBEM player can (and I do) play the same titles they were playing 20 years ago (just processed turn 121 of a Smolensk Campaign game this morning) and it is still as fresh and new as it was then because the opponent is different every time, and thus the challenge is different every time.  WDS can develop their AI until it can play the game like Deep Blue can play Chess and it is STILL not going to be as interesting, challenging and/or entertaining as playing a new player in an old scenario.  The PBEM community will in fact still be playing these games when WDS stops producing them and all the solo gamers have moved on to game maker de jour for their latest feel good fix.  You can chisel that in stone in my opinion.

Well that is really good news about the younger players you are encountering, for various reasons I have not been active on the PBEM front for a while and of course game reports don’t state players ages so I had not been aware of this.

We do need to give JTS\WDS due credit for keeping all the titles patched to the same level which means there are no “old games” and as you say you can PBEM titles all the way back to 1999 and still have the same blast as you did back then!

I always said that as long as can always find 10 opponents I will continue to play these games forever, which just confirms what it says on your stone tablet…….

[Mr Grumpy]

If you could attract a small percentage of the people who play World of Tanks, War Thunder and other FPS wargames to the world of hexes that might help the community grow. All of these games are multiplayer only, and they have made their creators vast amounts of money.

You might be surprised at how many "history buffs" there are in these FPS communities. Not to deny that there is a lot of toxicity in there as well.

I have spent a massive amount of time playing these FPS games as well as many hex-based "proper" wargames (SP, PzC, WitP etc.). They are a lot more similar than you might think from a cursory glance. It's all "puzzles".

Well it perhaps will not surprise you that the only ladder of the club we have had any true “toxicity “ on was Combat Mission, that game seemed to attract a core of members who’s only interest seemed to be in engaging in a war of words on the forum, they have all moved on now (or maybe grown up a bit) and I have wondered where they drifted off to, perhaps you have bumped into some of them on various FPS sites? 

[Mr Grumpy]

As a younger player, I think I might have given up these games without the Blitz's ladder. The lackluster AI is a big drag and the tedium of a campaign game turn without the payoff of facing a real opponent is pretty disheartening. Just having that little spark of points on the line and a record to keep track of your performance makes me way more engaged.

Well that is fantastic to hear, I hope you have many more years of fun here! 

[Steel God]

If you could attract a small percentage of the people who play World of Tanks, War Thunder and other FPS wargames to the world of hexes that might help the community grow. All of these games are multiplayer only, and they have made their creators vast amounts of money.

You might be surprised at how many "history buffs" there are in these FPS communities. Not to deny that there is a lot of toxicity in there as well.

I have spent a massive amount of time playing these FPS games as well as many hex-based "proper" wargames (SP, PzC, WitP etc.). They are a lot more similar than you might think from a cursory glance. It's all "puzzles".

I played around in both World of Tanks and World of Warships (Call Sign Fair Damsel there) in my years (2011 to 2019) that I could not dedicate time to playing "proper war games" and I agree with you that there is much in common between those and these.....but the primary difference is visually.  Those games tend to attract visually, and only serious players drill down to understand the nuances enough to solve the puzzles, these games by WDS don't visually appeal, they are almost pure mental challenge, so they tend attract the less easily bored types from jump street.  For my part I enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere of the mid-tier games in in WoT and WoWS, but the dedication and money that was required to compete at Tiers 8-10 was a bridge too far for me.  I confess it was a psychological barrier because I didn't want to spend money to compete on what was a "free game" when I signed up.....I know, that's silly since I'll gladly plunk down $40 for a new PzC game and not think twice about it, but I guess since they're not telling me it's ever going to be free it feels less deceptive to me, and I absolutely loath being deceived (unless it's on the battlefield in which case if you can pull it off I tip my hat to you).  Once upon a time the Blitzkrieg members joined the game Tribal Wars and created a clan, and we achieved great things for a good while.....but man was that game a money pit  

Anyway....you're right, there is a lot of real war gaming talent in the games, sadly drowning in an ocean of trash talking.

[parmenio]

I won't disagree with you that we have invested a fair bit of effort into improving the AI experience for players across multiple game series, there have also been a absolute ton of updates targeted at the human player from both the game engine functionality point of view and also what I like to call QOL (Quality of Life) changes that ease a player's interaction with a game.

Trust me, PBEM is not dead and we have a lot of ideas we're looking into going forward.