Campaign System

Easymeat · 09-23-2007, 12:35 AM,

This post is to see if there is any interest in a Campaign System for CM. CMC does not look like it is going to be released.

I have written a program to read unit names as a proof of concept. All other details can be read such as Eliminated, routed, ammo, tired, kills etc. These will be added later. I will upload the Unit Names program tomorrow evening.

A database will be used to store the details. The text file is just a temporary measure. The database will enable bookkeeping so that a campaign can be managed. The campaign can be between 2 to 64 players depending on how the campaign is set up. Also linking battles together with the same OOBs will be possible, for example Sie Kommen.

The final programs will access the data structures directly but image recognition will suffice for now.

In the campaign system all units will be given a unique name. CM does not give a unique name (see Monty's Gambit). So special names will be used.

Getting the unit details out of CM is easy, putting the details back into CM will be easy. Such as unit name, ammo, rested, fatigued, crack, regular etc. Immobilised vehicles will need the data structure altered to reflect the change in state, this cannot be done in the editor. Writing the campaign system will not be so straight forward as many factors need to be taken into account. Continuity is a must.

If there is no interest fine otherwise lets get the ball rolling and get a project started.

Sample output from Test of Courage before reinforcements arrive: a ? mark is an unrecognised character which needs adding to the character array.

Allies

Lt Dominati
Cpl Lelouttre
Cpl Davoine
Cpl Bret
Cpl Dolez
Cpl Jamot
Cpl Inchaupse
Cpl Bateux
Cpl Gayard
Cpl Facon
Sgt Sauges
Cpl Nallet
Cpl Hage
Cpl Freche
Cpl Gollat
Cpl Sanchez
Cpl Rossi
Cpl Fortas
Cpl Vernaudon
Cpl Blum
Cpl Soucy
Cpl Dronne
Cpl Imbert
Cpl Estrosi
Cpl Bois
Cpl LeDeaut
Cpl Houillon
Cpl Rousselle
Cpl Vergnier
Cpl Dord
Cpl Brial
Cpl Liegeois
Cpl Jacquot
Sgt Albert
Cpl Debre
Cpl Trochu
Cpl Clergau
Cpl Bernadotte
Cpl Briand
Cpl Blisko
Cpl Aubron
Cpl Ben Said
Cpl Delattre
Cpl Froger
Cpl Bodson
Lt Verdier
Sgt Floch
Sgt Ranier
Sgt Tyrode
Sgt Tavernier
Lt Teissier
Sgt Gateaud
Sgt Legrand
Sgt Pinard
Sgt Balace
Lt Kert
Sgt Neri
Sgt Desfontaines
Sgt Patriat
Lt Kalajian
Sgt Vavarro
Sgt Stone
Sgt Dieterich
Sgt Harris
Cpt Gaubert
Lt Cathala
Sgt Montcorget
Sgt Ben Abbes
Sgt Fabius
Cpl Forissier
Lt Tramoni
Sgt Dauge
Sgt Collon
Sgt Olivier
Cpl Blanc
Lt Valleix
Cpl Sarrazac
Cpl Vanzini
Cpl Dubois
Cpl Leroy
Cpl Montane
Cpt Touflet
Lt Bonrepaux
Cpl Roman
Lt Vos
Cpl Morvan
Cpl Lemmens
Cpl Ben Lahcen
Cpl Darcis
Cpl Collignon
Lt Collins
Sgt Roth
Sgt Forbes
Lt Jacobs
Sgt Lopez
Sgt Buynak
Sgt Weire
Sgt Rousselle
Lt Barroux
Sgt Capet
Sgt LeBris
Sgt Rogemont
Lt Larson
Sgt Krumin
Sgt White
Sgt Shealy
Sgt Cox
Cpt Vannson
Lt Yamagne
Sgt Veyret
Sgt Baroin
Sgt Vachet
Lt Maret
Sgt Bulligand
Sgt Grammont
Sgt LeDrain
Lt Dayan
Sgt Fousseret
Sgt Rimbert
Sgt Sorret
Lt Walker
Sgt Dyer
Sgt Fudickar
Sgt Constable
Sgt Atchison
Lt Ben Larbi
Sgt Ayrault
Sgt Sauvadet
Sgt Mariot
Com *Billotte

Axis

Unt Krause
Unt Gratz
Unt Geller
Unt Spicher
Obg Hammerstein
Obg Schoenberg
Obg Palowski
Obg Losigkeit
Obg Schepke
Obg Hartwein
Obg Frommer
Obg Sch?te
Obg Bussemass
Obg Kroner
Obg Kastein
Obg Schenck
Obg Kowalczyk
Obg Zoeller
Obg Hollinger
Obg Buchbinder
Obg Ostermann
Obg Sch?ler
Obg Schimanski
Lt ?Junghannis
Unt Dregger
Unt Von Lorenhoven
Unt Priller
Unt Erdmann
Lt Schwanenberg
Unt Oppeln
Unt Polreich
Unt Steindl
Unt Schroeder
Lt Bayer
Unt Lobethal
Unt Kienast
Unt Dollmann
Unt Burkhalter
Hpt Tr?ger
Lt von Steuben
Unt Hauer
Unt Dultz
Unt Hubmann
Obg Jens
Lt Ziervogel
Unt Wollak
Unt Protzner
Unt R?sl
Obg Bahr
Lt Kunze
Unt Bischoff
Unt Engstler
Unt Sutthoff
Obg Meyer
Lt Gaschler
Obg Von Suttner
Obg Kubler
Obg Wedemeyer
Obg Altkeller
Obg Gerhardt
Maj ?Boltze

Smashing(FGM) · 09-23-2007, 12:47 AM,

wow..yes interested.

Mad Russian · 09-23-2007, 09:02 AM,

Several of us have been working on a project called Op CM. This is where there is a higher level of management for the battles. An operation or a campaign. Normandy, Stalingrad, Kursk, Market Garden...whatever.

Then a map is made, OOB's are made and the operation runs for so many "turns/battles". The administrator then upgrades the units and new battles get generated.

Is this what you have in mind?

Good Hunting.

MR

Mad Russian · 09-23-2007, 12:32 PM,

The very large issue that arose during playtesting of Op CM is that we strive to make CM battles balanced in everything we do. In actual warfare the generals are striving for the exact opposite of that. They are trying to get a situation that very much has the odds in their favor. This doesn't make for FUN CM games to be played out for one side.

You end up with a situation where you play ten lopsided games to get one that is balanced.

Outside of the Domination style of campaign I don't know what to do to correct that aspect of higher level combat being played out on a tactical level.

Good Hunting.

MR

Easymeat · 09-24-2007, 01:44 AM,

There is no error checking in this program use at your own risk. Some will be added later in the week plus a few bells and whistles.

The program code is easy to read and no obfuscation has been used.

How to use:
Start CMAK, start the scenario you want to examine.
Make sure the cursor is not in the unit info bar
Atl Tab out of CMAK
Run "CM Unit Name Reader"
Click on "Create Unit Text File"
Click on CMAK to bring it into focus you have 10 seconds before the program starts examining the units
Program will go from unit to unit and create a file named C:unitdata.txt
After the file has been created focus will change to CreateUnitTextFile
Close msgbox
close program CreateUnitTextFile

A few things that will be added:

Allow user to choose save directory
All data will be captured including kills
Program will wait for CM there will be no time limit
Button to change the speed the program goes from unit to unit
Add a few pictures to the form and buttons
Change the icon to something more suitable

Make the code neater and comments more meaningful

Finally remember it is a work in progress.

Easymeat · 09-24-2007, 01:57 AM,

All games of this type run the risk of one side winning early in the battle or campaign.

Mad Russian
The very large issue that arose during playtesting of Op CM is that we strive to make CM battles balanced in everything we do. In actual warfare the generals are striving for the exact opposite of that. They are trying to get a situation that very much has the odds in their favor. This doesn't make for FUN CM games to be played out for one side.

That is the point of CM. Each player makes decisions hoping that they will affect the balance of the game. Battles and Campaigns have victory conditions and a player/team can always resign. If all things taken into account each side starts with the ability to meet the victory conditions and like the battle or campaign being played then there should be no problem if one side loses.

Above all CM should be fun for both sides win or lose (preferably win).

Mad Russian · 09-24-2007, 04:59 AM,

Easymeat Wrote:All games of this type run the risk of one side winning early in the battle or campaign.

Mad Russian
The very large issue that arose during playtesting of Op CM is that we strive to make CM battles balanced in everything we do. In actual warfare the generals are striving for the exact opposite of that. They are trying to get a situation that very much has the odds in their favor. This doesn't make for FUN CM games to be played out for one side.

That is the point of CM. Each player makes decisions hoping that they will affect the balance of the game. Battles and Campaigns have victory conditions and a player/team can always resign. If all things taken into account each side starts with the ability to meet the victory conditions and like the battle or campaign being played then there should be no problem if one side loses.

Above all CM should be fun for both sides win or lose (preferably win).

What I'm saying is that if you do a campaign of sorts other than QB's with any kind of high level operational military actions the commanders directing those units are going to try their best to make them VERY UNBALANCED! In real warfare you don't win fair fights! You don't even fight them if you can avoid it. Here in CM we strive for that balanced fight.

I'm still looking to see what can be done the Op CM concept I don't think is it.

Maybe Bootie and I can adapt it somehow.

Good Hunting.

MR

09-24-2007, 06:24 AM,

Yeah we need something to stick a red hot poker up its ass as it died a death.

The thing is as Ive said from the start... if it aint a simple concept you get bogged and it dies.

Ive seen it many many times over the years.

What we need to try and do is possibly automate some of the process to take the strain of the co-ordinators. No idea how to do it but there you have it in a nutshell... if its left to a person to do it may be fine at first but will soon die.

And as MR has mentioned unfair battles arent fun but they are realistic.

Can you ever get a campaign like that to work??

Mad Russian · 09-24-2007, 09:21 AM,

For me the entire issue of going on was that the battles were unbalanced. Who wants to either surrender by turn 10 every time or have your opponent surrendering by turn 10 every time?

We all came to fight and win.

Not just hit the go button a few times and then leave.

The process wasn't the problem. That was IMO simple enough. There was a great deal of historical accuracy but it was not going to be balanced but whenever both sides messed up. You as the commander on the attack don't want a balanced fight. The FUN factor was missing.

Good Hunting.

MR