Bunkers and Pillboxes

[dmattwads]

Just wondering if anyone knew if infantry/machine guns fire at the firing slit of a bunker or pillbox can pin or knock out the crew?:chin:

[PoorOldSpike]

INFANTRY v MG-PILLBOX

This series of tests were conducted with veteran units, in command, clear summer midday.
(my cmbb grid squares are 20m)

Over 100m
HMG's open up and caused box-crew casualties, making them abandon it. However not all games will have a massed rank of HMG's like this, so knocking out a box will take considerably longer if using just a few HMG's.




Around 40-60m
Rifles and grenade-launchers open up, but sometimes you'll have to issue a fire order to kickstart them into action. Rifle fire and rif-grenades occasionally kill a box crewman.
Arrow indicates a grenade, their max throwing range is about 40m and they can hurt boxes.
Inset shows a volley of rifle-grenades showering the box.




Around 30-40m
The heavier grenade bundles and satchel charges will begin flying as the range drops to around 35m and under, they can seriously hurt boxes.
Flamethrowers will also join in from 40m or less depending on nationality.
(I also ran a molotov test with Russian infantry but they preferred throwing grenades and there was no way to make them throw molos)




Well over 100m
Panzerschrecks will fire at quite long ranges but you must order them to fire, or they won't.



Likewise, PIATS (bottom group) and bazookas (top) also need a fire order to make them open up.(my cmak grid is 10m)
I never saw a schreck/ piat/ baz score a 'penetration' through the concrete as the hits were 'no effect', but occasionally they scored a 'firing slit penetration' which caused crew casualties and eventually the survivors abandoned.

[Jobu88]

Flamethrowers also make very short work of pillboxes, and don't have to fire through the front slit. Usually not more than two shots required and the pillbox troops will abandon.

[dmattwads]

Thanks POS, I never knew that machine gun fire could have an effect upon pillboxes before :bow:

[PoorOldSpike]

Yes mate, this Russian dood in the test didn't know either and decided to call it a day..

[PoorOldSpike]

BREAKFAST ANYONE?

Once you've got proper guns in your hands you'll have pboxes for breakfast; here 3 Stuarts take out an AT-pbox just 21 seconds into the turn!
Sure, the gun got 2 of them first but my point is that a FIRING SLIT HAS ZERO ARMOUR and WILL be 'penetrated' sooner or later..:)
In fact a small fast-firing gun like the Stuarts 37mm might even be better than a larger slower-firing gun for anti-pbox work because its higher rate of fire means there's more chance of one of its shells slitting quickly..

[Der Kuenstler]

In fact a small fast-firing gun like the Stuarts 37mm might even be better than a larger slower-firing gun for anti-pbox work because its higher rate of fire means there's more chance of one of its shells slitting quickly..

Right - 37mm and even 25mm guns are better - they hit the slit more often...

[PoorOldSpike]

Right, even a tiny 20mm-armed car can knock out an MG-bunker (left)or MG-pillbox (right) in about just 17 seconds (note clock)
But if it went up against a gun-armed box it might not last very long unless it had a few mates helping out..

[PoorOldSpike]

Russia

[Mikey_FGM]

The humble AA gun is the biggest bunker killer in CM due to it's ultra rapid fire rate... Rarely can a pillbox last a turn without suffering a cascade of deadly "Firing Slit Penetrations".

If I remember correctly, a single AA "Burst" in CM is treated like 3 separate tiny tank shells... So the gun narrows in very quickly...

Also, AA guns are notoriously difficult to spot when firing from well concealed positions...

The only problem is HOW TO GET THEM THERE on the attack, considering there "Very Slow" speed, and transport requirements...