Airmobile units in MC

[Mafooo]

Hi,

I'm playing the Bolt out of the blue scenario (taz's scenario) from North German Plain, and i have a question regarding airmobile units (not helicopters).

We are on turn 27, and the NATO opponent (and myself to a lesser extent), have been using airmobile units in T mode to block roads and generally screen land units. The rules state that you can assault those T mode units, but all that does is give the T mode unit a defensive fire as well as burning up the assaulter's movement points, for no loss to the airmobile unit though it gets pushed back. I actually have had a t-80 tank battalion of 30 tanks assault a company of T mode paratroopers of XX strength (10-99 men) to get them out of the way. The T mode unit defensive fired and disrupted my unit, which bottlenecked the road for the rest of the division coming up. Unfortunately, the game engine has designed airmobile units in such a way that airmobile units in T mode are much harder to hit then if they were on the ground. So players obviously will keep their paratroopers hovering all day where they are safer rather then landing them and exposing them to artillery fire.

So my question to everyone here is:

1. Is this a historical use of airmobile units? To keep them in the air as long as possible because it's safer then being on the ground.

2. I know that the Danube Front game made some modifications to the helicopter rules. Does this force players to use both airmobile and helicopter units more realistically?

This also applies to helicopters, but to a lesser extent. I can visualize Apache's flitting around the battlefield shooting things up, but transport copters carrying infantry is another thing.

Any response is appreciated.

P.S. Feel free to post a photo of a dead horse, if this has already been discussed in another thread.

[Glenn Saunders]

I can't speak for "Bolt from the Blue" but trying to hold ground with MEN in Helicopters says it all.

This accidentially happened in earlier OOB because FOOT inf has a Defalt value of 16 and a foot unit was converted to Helicopter without considering the "flying factor". Guys jumped on this and figured a "smart" way to hold ground with them which is within the rules but clearly something not intended in the design.

These units now have a Defense value of 4 halved which in effect makes them a 2 due to T mode when flying whch may seem like an extremely low value unless you follow that they can only be fired upon by AA values which in turn are also often very low themselves. But it goes to show that Men in helicopters shouldn't be able to hold ground even though it works in your game because AA values are like 2 and 4 and Def values are 16? (maybe).

Glenn

[Elxaime]

In "Bolt from the Blue" the airmobile infantry has a defense value of 10 when in "T" mode. In standard D85, the airmobile has a defense value of 4 when in "T" mode. I think Tazaaron justifies this by the numbers of AAA and mobile SAM he adds to the OOB, but this airmobile infantry defense value is a definite difference between the two versions. I believe the helo defense values are the same or close for both versions.

[Glenn Saunders]

Do a test shot with On Map results OFF, and I thinkl you will see effective value is 5 and 2 as fire at units in T mode are halved.

In any case, the main question is:
> Using airmobile units in T mode to block roads and generally screen land units. Is this a historical use of airmobile units?

And I can only say that we never thought this was some aspect of the game we considered and have taken action to discourage it.

Glenn

[Aaron]

In the latest version of the Bolt Airmobile troops in transport have a def of 8 so halved is 4, i did set it higher b/c of the Sams with longer range in the game but this is still a low number. AA values range from 6 -14. Helo units have been talked about on these threads over and over and as improvements have been made all around it still comes down to the guy your playing against and how he uses them.

Aaron

[Tbird3]

In response to the original question if this was in any way doctrinal, absolutely not. Infantry is at their most vulnerable when mounted on helicopters. Infantrymen the world over tend to view the helicopter as merely a means of transportation to get them to fight. US AASLT or air mobile (old Vietnam era term) operations doctrine is very clear that the ground plan will drive the air movement plan. In other words, the driving force of these elements is what they are going to do on the ground, not in flying around.

[HirooOnoda]

Standard House rule: Not air units of any sort can end their turn in T-mode in a forest/road hex or block a bridge hexside.

[CptCav]

Standard House rule: Not air units of any sort can end their turn in T-mode in a forest/road hex or block a bridge hexside.

Agree, but not always possible due to bumping into unseen enemy and getting disrupted.

Regards,
CptCav

[Glenn Saunders]

Standard House rule: Not air units of any sort can end their turn in T-mode in a forest/road hex or block a bridge hexside.

Agree, but not always possible due to bumping into unseen enemy and getting disrupted.

Yes - but it does make sense and ya know, had someone suggested this before - sorry if this "standard house rule" is news to me, I could have got John to ground all flying MAN helicopters at the end of the turn. But that might lead to to a funny situation where there is no cost to unload MAN units that are aboard helicopters.

....in any case, this is the sorta of simple change which could possibly be made if it didn't create more problems than it solved. (like what if the helicopter ended the turn in a full water hex)

Glenn

[Mike Bowen]

Tying all Helo units to a range from a base unit would be good. Making them dismount when disrupted might be an option and I would have thought you could except landing in some types of hexes at the end of a turn without too much difficulty it is, I guess, sort of the reverse of mech units not coming out of T mode in marshes.