Artillery setup

Philippe · 02-09-2011, 06:15 AM,

I just played a Budapest scenario against the AI and was very surprised to see my own artillery firing defensively during the AI's turn. My artillery wasn't set up because I was advancing.

This happened at least four times in a seven turn scenario, and at least two of the times it happened my artillery was not set up for firing the next turn either, even though it remained in place.

I've noticed this before in other Panzer Campaigns engine games (saw it happen the other day in France '14), but four times in seven turns is too much to overlook.

Why should my artillery be able to fire defensively on the move when it can't fire offensively on the move, even ineffectually? If this were intentional I would have thought it would have been the other way around, only with some horrendous penalty applied to the firing unit.

If this is WASD I'd be curious to hear the justification.

**Ricky B** · (This post was last modified: 02-09-2011, 07:10 AM by Ricky B.)

If the artillery is not setup, and shows an indication that it is required to fire, then this would be a bug. As unlike you I have NEVER seen this happen, it will take some work to replicate the problem. As you are playing the AI could you please send me a file from a turn when it happened and I can get with HPS Support on it for a fix, if we can replicate it - or if it can be explained otherwise I will get back to you.

Before doing all this, by the way, just want to be sure, tied with my first comment, that these are arty units that are firing that require setup to fire? There are SP artillery of various types, plus mortars/nebelwerfers that can fire without setting up, so even if you fire them in your turn they can still fire during the enemy turn. That is as designed, replicating their ability to setup and fire quickly, although maybe not always aimed well for IF fire. And if this is the issue and you want the reasons, this may not be the place to get it as I don't know if Glenn as the most official rep here has that!

Further thought is that if the artillery was deployed but not setup, but with an LOS to the target, it makes sense it could fire over open sights. And if you have counterbattery fire optional rule on, that might allow defensive fire at enemy artillery, although I don't recall that for sure, or if it just allows fire at ? artillery in your turn.

Rick

Nitram Draw · 02-09-2011, 07:34 AM,

If it can be direct fired then I think artillery does not have to be set up.

Philippe · 02-09-2011, 08:11 AM,

That may be the answer.

I just sent a file to Rick showing a setup required unit firing defensively at a target that it had a line of sight to. I can't check to see if it can fire during its own turn in spite of needing setup because it became unavailable after firing.

This may all be correct, but it feels odd.

Dog Soldier · 02-09-2011, 08:45 AM,

Setup status per the optional rule refers only to indirect fire. The rule is meant to consider time to place the guns in service with sufficient ammunition for a fire mission, positioning forward observers and establishing communications between the FO's and the battery.

Firing over open sights at a target in LOS is not odd at all. Check the pdt for the title. Some sides have a penalty (less than 100%) modifier for indirect fire. Firing at a target over open sights while the target is in LOS allows full fire effect.

An example would be Russian artillery in Smolensk 41. It can take a long time for a Russian battery to set up. There can be many times when the German advance breaks the line and brings Axis units into LOS of the Russian artillery.

It would be odd indeed to see those guns sitting idle and not firing at German units advancing on their position, either defensive fire or offensive fire in the Russian turn should the player wish to do so. As long as they are "Available" status, they should be able to blaze away to disrupt the advancing enemy.

Dog Soldier

**Ricky B** · 02-09-2011, 09:09 AM,

I think Philippe's issue is more along the lines of not being able to fire in his own turn due to moving, so why be able to fire full strength defensive fire in the AI phase - but that is a guess, and Philippe can clarify if he wants. And on the face of it is is odd probably - but that is how the entire game works, for all units. And that is a result of what Glenn has mentioned before, you are taking a real life situation and making it conform to I go, you go, along with hexes, etc.

Anyway, I will check it out tonight and see if there is anything odd that has been missed, but I think the LOS is the answer. Thanks for the file Philippe.

Rick

Glenn Saunders · 02-10-2011, 10:13 AM,

We're only speculating without a file. Consider also that the arty could be self propelled - I know there are German NW rockets is Smolensk even where the image is not particularly clear.

While Bugs can creep in, I bet with the file in hand and knowledge of the units involved there will be an explanation within the rules.

Glenn Saunders · 02-11-2011, 09:30 AM,

still waiting for info
1) Which Scn where you playing
2) Which arty unit of yours fired defensive fire in the AIs turn

Presumibly - the situation you are talking about is Fire from an Arty unit that is labeled with "Setup Required" on the unit image.

If it didn't say Setup Required on it than the unit is allowed to fire.

I suspect what this might be is something like Werfer units wich are Mot Rockets. This this type of ARTY unit can actually MOVE without being in T mode. When they move - unlike other arty units they will not have the "Setup Required" image on them.

I suppose it could be soemthing else but I am using a new EXE slightly different the Budapest and when I move Arty units (not Mot Rockets) they get teh setup required label and are not able to fire.

Send in a BTL to me or HPS Support if you find something different