Personal ROE's

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Here are mine:

Personal ROE's

Rules Of Play

* All options on, including Fog of War

* Armor facing can be negotiated

* Extreme Assault only in scenarios that call for it. (When it is called for it must be on.)

* Can discuss using Extreme Assault for scenarios that are "out of balance". (Most classic scenarios no.)

* Variable Visibility - Only in scenarios where the designer said it must be used. (I'll trust the scenario designer here.)

Unit ROE's

* Non combat units can be removed from the map ( I ususally drive to the boards edge, in a friendly controlled zone, wait one turn, and then exit the map)

* Units cannot be removed from the map. (Only when called for by the scenario designer and/or tourneymeister.)

* Non-combat units are any that cannot fire and/or assault.

* Non-combat transport units cannot be used to surround, block movement, block line of sight, draw opportunity fire, or perform "recon" duties.

* Combat halftracks & trucks can be used to surround and assault. Against enemy tanks only when assaulting with other infantry or tank combat units.

* Combat halftracks & trucks can "scout" when they are with (in the area of) their own carried units or in the company of scout cars.

* Against enemy soft targets, Ht's & trucks can overrun/assault any enemy soft unit, including artillery, HQ's, and AT guns.

* Scout cars similar to HT & trucks when assaulting. Never alone against tanks.

* Light tanks similar to scout cars but can assault enemy light tanks, never alone against medium or heavy tanks.

* Bren carrier transports are treated as half tracks.

* Armed trucks (with fire and assault values) are treated as halftracks.

* Leaders can participate in assaults when stacked with a combat unit that is assaulting.

*Dismounted horses should be treated as non-combat transports. (Though, I've seen the occasional stampede now and then.)

*Snipers and patrol scout platoons/squads should only assault with regular combat units (as listed above - for purposes of assault they are not regular infantry).

ON MAP AIRPLANE ROE:

* No taking victory hexes by flying "over" them.
* No blocking movement of ground units.
* No using them in ground assaults.
* No blocking the movement of air units with ground units. (Yes, I had a situation where I had an air plane surrounded by ground units so that I could not move it. LOL!)

These are my personal ROE's. I discuss them prior to playing a new opponent and/or during play with a new player to the game.
I believe the above "unit ROE's" bring the most "historical" simulation to the game, which makes it less gamey.



HSL

[Crossroads]

Thanks Ed!

If we indeed post our preferences here, it would perhaps assist everyone in formulating their wishes when agreeing upon ROEs.

Here's my preferences in addition to what the Hawk's Law states in all its beauty:

Unarmed transports should not be used as combat units. They should not scout, block line of sight, draw fire, or be used to surround a combat unit that is about to be assaulted.

Half tracks (Brens etc) with a combat factor are combat units and can be used as such. They should not however be used to systematically trigger Op Fire prior the entry of friendly armour, or roam all over the map en-masse.

Individual Half track platoons (as above) can spot artillery, scout, and if one triggers an OF when on an honest scouting mission, well that's what the OF is for in the first place. And there can be several individual HT platoons with a scouting mission of their own. But I would not wish to see a stampede of HTs moving about solely on their own ;)

Everything else goes. Although, if playing EA=off I am leaning towards HSL when it comes to assaulting disrupted units.

Also, I prefer AF and VV off and EA on. I am willing to play other options and ROEs (or no ROEs at all) as well.

Some editing done

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Bump!

Don't want this to drop too far down.

:drink:

HSL

[Big Ivan]

OK I'll chime in...

Here are my rules of engagement:

Halftracks and Brens: Perfectly legal to initiate op fire and run around in the rear areas. The are a combat transport, if your opponent wants to throw them away, shoot at them! Also its legal to use them as hill top or ground level observers. Any combat unit can do this!

Trucks, wagons, horses, bicycles, motorcycles: Non-combat units. Legal to exit, the game engine does it, but not block for close assault (transports are critical to a mechanized army. No sane commander would throw them away needlessly). However they can block a road and they will probably die for it. If they get to close loaded with something other than beer or whiskey shoot at them! You can't run the risk of breaking the bottles!

Boats and water transport units: Legal targets all the time. Send them to Davy Jones!

Optional rules: Yes to all accept EA but EA is negotiable and depends on the scenario. I like VV because it feels more realistic while adding a little spice to fog of war.

Leaders: to important not to be stacked with a combat unit. If they are alone kill them!

Finally to leave this all open and in the spirit of friendly gamesmenship, if your not sure what I like or don't like, ask me! There is no such thing as a stupid question and if you want an opinion, I'll give you one.

Pleasant gaming ALL!
Thanks
ItB:smoke2:

[Crossroads]

I hope you don't mind me adding Hawk's Law here as well:

Hawk's Law

1: If there are no ROE's stated then none are in play. Everything goes.

2: Other than cheating the Blitz has no ROE's regarding game play.

3: If you are better than your oppoent you will beat him the majority of the time no matter what tactics he uses.

4: For every "gamey" tactic there is an answer. Go find it.

5: If you play me please spot with your trucks and lead with your halftracks. You will lose.

6: Enough hand wringing. Go play.

Thanks for bringing this to light again. Hawk Law's? You flatter me.

I suppose I have played enough games verses enough opponents that this really is my basic requirements the I need from my opponents. I have enough wins and losses that those are no longer of a great concern. I know look for challange and fun.

Further comments on the Hawk Laws.

1. My style is not everything goes, I play more along the style that Ed does (he was my early mentor), but if my opponent does it is fine for one or two games. He will not be my opponent for long.

2. Cheating is the only place that the Blitz should be involved IMHO. ROEs are between players.

3. This is also very true. I could do most anything in a scenario and I will not beat certain players. They are simply better than me (in many cases way better than me).

4. That could be ammended to for most gamey tactics there is an answer. Ultimately the ultimate tactic against a gamey player is to not play them anymore. I once had an opponent who put the maximum amount of infanty SP's in open hexes and then drove his tanks behind them so I could not see them. He got his couple of games and then no more. No complaining, no crying foul.

5. This is also a truism. With truck's being worth 3 VPs an per SP you cannot lose a lot of trucks and expect to win. The math just does not work.

6. As to this. If you spend a lot of time worrying about ROEs (hand wrining) then you are devoting less time to the actual game. Go play, have fun, if you win great, if you lose its ok and if the opponent is not to your liking as to style then don't play them. No need to fret.

Anyone you would like to see the Hawk Rules (really Petri!) in action can send me an email.

Go play!

Hawk

[Askari19]

Here are the ROEs recently adopted in a team game, with some caveats or options (meaning preferences of mine, not adopted in that game) noted in italics.

BTW, HSL, thanks much for your listing; very detailed and comprehensive. I am leaning your way on several points for the future.

1) Transport halftracks that are unarmed or only armed with machine guns (this includes German 250 & 251 series, and the American-made M3, and applies also to Bren Carriers, but does not include specialized weapon carriers with guns, mortars, flak, etc.):
- Cannot be used while unloaded to trigger opportunity fire;
- Can only participate in assaults if they are loaded with infantry, or if infantry or other types of armored vehicles also concurrently assault the same hex [this is more restrictive than HSL's rule which I personally prefer]
- Can move and fight freely except for these restrictions.

2) Trucks and other unarmored transports:
- Cannot move closer to an enemy unit to block its retreat;
- Cannot intentionally probe for enemy units concealed in a hex by attempting to enter that hex (common sense applies here, it’s the intent that matters);
- Cannot be used intentionally as scouts or OPs by placing them in locations with good LOS on the battlefield (again, common sense applies – they will still occasionally sight units but shouldn’t be deployed for this purpose);
- Cannot be used purposefully as roadblocks (unloading and standing by in a road hex is common and allowed; intent, again, is the issue here).

3) Leaders cannot be used to block an enemy unit's retreat path. [I personally will not use them in an assault unless they are stacked with a participating combat unit]

4) HQ units:
- Cannot move closer to an enemy unit to block its retreat.
- Do not have to move away from an adjacent enemy unit.
- Can fire freely in any phase.

5) All units must stay on the battlefield (game map) unless they can be exited by scenario design for victory points. [personal preference: exit is restricted to friendly reinforcement entry hexes, and may or may not be restricted to non-combat units (HSL definition) by mutual agreement]

[RADO]

I like all optional rules except VV. Normally play with the following understanding between players:

1) Transport halftracks that are unarmed or only armed with machine guns (this includes German 250 & 251 series, and the American-made M3, but does not include specialized weapon carriers with guns, mortars, flak, etc.):
• Cannot be used while unloaded to 'scout' ahead of your tanks to draw OP fire from enemy tanks. (if they’re carrying passengers, I assume they can advance freely…. The VP cost of using loaded halftracks to draw OP fire would be prohibitive; but sometimes they’ll have to advance in situations where they may draw fire, and we shouldn’t assume it’s a sacrifice play…)
• Are only allowed to participate in assaults if they are loaded with infantry, or if infantry or other types of armored vehicles also concurrently assault the same hex.
• Can move and fight freely except for these restrictions. (Personally I will refrain from sending them unaccompanied on long safaris into the enemy rear, which could be profitable even if prohibited from assaulting – if they accompany other AFVs, maybe… but that’s a hard rule to write so let’s just be reasonable here)

2) Trucks and other unarmored prime movers:
• Cannot move closer to an enemy unit to block its retreat; (like HQ I guess they are not obliged to move away, or are they???)
• Cannot probe for enemy units concealed in a hex by attempting to enter that hex (common sense applies here, it’s the intent that matters);
• Cannot be used as scouts or OPs by placing them in locations with good LOS on the battlefield (again, common sense applies – they will still occasionally sight units but shouldn’t be intentionally deployed for this purpose)
• Cannot be used purposefully as roadblocks.

3) Leaders cannot block retreat unless they are participating in an assault. (shouldn’t we just say they can’t participate in an assault unless stacked with a combat unit that is assaulting???)

4) HQ units:
• Cannot move closer to an enemy unit to block its retreat.
• Do not have to move away from an adjacent enemy unit.
• Can fire freely in any phase.

5) All units must stay on the battlefield (game map) unless they can be exited by scenario design to create points.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Side by side summary:

Askari19 - A

RADO - R

Herr Straßen Läufer - H

Battle Kat - B

Ivan The Big - I

Rules of Play
A - none given
R - all optional rules except Vv
H - All options on, AF by negotiation, EA when called for, or negotiated, Vv only when called for
B - Everything else goes but, has some retrictions and reservations. prefer AF and VV off and EA on. willing to play other options and ROEs
I - All options with EA negotiable, including Vv on

Transports
A - Transport Hts unarmed (or mg armed) and Bren Carriers unloaded: no assault (except with other infantry, armor etc.), no drawing fire, no free movement about the map. Trucks & unarmed transports cannot move closer to the enemy, draw fire, scout, or block. Purposefully, by the opponent. Horses - no comment.
R - Transport Hts unarmed (or mg armed): no assault (except with other infantry, armor etc.), no drawing fire, can freely move about the map
(though free move is in the company of other combat units). Trucks & unarmed transports cannot move closer to the enemy, draw fire, scout, or block. Purposefully, by the opponent. Horses - no comment.
H - Transport Hts unarmed are non combat units and can/should be moved to the map edge and exited, no intentional drawing of fire, scouting, or blocking hexes on map or line of sight. Armed Ht transports are consider combat units with restrictions. Assault alone only soft targets. Assault armor only in conjunction with other armor or infantry combat units. Horses are non combat units and ROE applies to them.
B - Transport unarmed are non combat units and should not scout, block line of sight, draw fire, or be used to surround a combat unit that is about to be assaulted. Half tracks (Brens etc) with a combat factor are combat units and can be used as such. They should not however be used to systematically trigger Op Fire prior the entry of friendly armour, or roam all over the map en-masse.
I - Trucks, wagons, horses, bicycles, motorcycles: Non-combat units. Legal to exit. not block for close assault. they can block a road. Halftracks and Brens: Perfectly legal to initiate op fire and run around in the rear areas.

HQs
A - Cannot move closer to an enemy unit to block retreat but do not have to move away from enemy units. Can fire freely at any unit.
R - Cannot move closer to an enemy unit to block retreat but do not have to move away from enemy units. Can fire freely at any unit.
H - Not given. But, (I'll state here), HQ's are combat units. They can move and fire like other combat units (even to aid in surrounds for other combat units in assaults).
B - Not given.
I - Not given.

Leaders
A - Leaders cannot be used to block an enemy unit's retreat path. Can assault when stacked with another assaulting combat unit.
R - Leaders cannot be used to block an enemy unit's retreat path. Can assault when stacked with another assaulting combat unit.
H - Leaders cannot be used to block an enemy unit's retreat path. Can assault when stacked with another assaulting combat unit.
B - Not given.
I - Important and should be stacked with a combat unit. Nothing about assaults, blocking (other than kill it), or surrounds.

Exiting Units
A - All units must stay on the battlefield (game map) unless they can be exited by scenario design for victory points.
R - All units must stay on the battlefield (game map) unless they can be exited by scenario design to create points.
H - Only combat units must stay on the map. Unarmed transports can exit, including horses.
B - None given.
I - None given.

Interesting similarities and differences when put next to each other?

If I have the wrong interpretations let me know and I will edit this field.



HSL

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

With all the reading I have done, armed transports can be used for combat of any kind. The SS actually had a HT Bn for a little while, Peiper commanded one in Russia. But the risk of easy kills is there, we all know that.

Unarmed transports should only be used to move other units faster and to remove from the map. Should not be allowed to block roads.

My 2 cents.

[Crossroads]

All,

Please use this thread for discussion: https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=61737

Let us try to keep this one clear and concise to the point yes? Which is personal ROEs