East Front: Forgotten Battles - Now with Medical units

[Crossroads]

We had a rather interesting discussion a while ago regarding whether adding medical units to JTCS would be a good idea or not. As it was, a 75/25 majority of those participating in the poll thought not.

For that one quarter, and for perhaps those still sitting on the fence with this one, here they are for further experimenting.

Here's a few thoughts of mine to go with them.

Scale

Why not? Medical units were presented in the TO&E for the countries available in the game, and for most part fit the platoon size scale of the game quite well. So here they are:



- Medics (SP2 squads), one for each company. These would support well the truly mobile infantry action.
Alternatively:
- Medics (SP4 platoon), one for each battalion. See the medics on reverse slope of highway down in the middle.

- Battalion Aid Station (SP4), one for each battalion. There's one near the factory on the right, protected with an IP.
- Mobile Field Hospital (SP5), one for each regiment. Not seen here, the bitmap has two tents instead of one.
- Hospital (SP6), one for each division. One can be seen fixed to a building on the top.
- Ambulances. A few of them seen here too. For Axis, ambulance buses. For Allied, ambulance trucks.

But what do they do? Stick band-aid on wounded to have them return to battle. I don't think so. My justification for the scale can be seen for an example from this scanned picture found in "The Lions of Carentan", a book about FJR 6:



To repeat: Here the Fallschirmjäger and the SS Grenadiers deliver wounded to the doctors, and then return to battle. The recovery of disrupted units into their normal status is to simulate them being relieved of their wounded comrades.

The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

Well, these units are leaders. There is no separate way to present morale boost. As such, they can of course perform other duties the Unit type=Commander units can do. As leaders, you don't see the unit bitmap in unit info, but a leader pic instead. As leaders, they can spot too.

Foul play? Well if you see them used in offence, they are legitimate targets. For this reason, their VP value is zero.

On a more positive example: if an enemy field hospital is left behind your advancing forces, they can be captured into POWs with an assault without a negative result for victory score.

As for ambulances, they are regular transports. Ambulances do have negative victory value, you should not be firing at them... Even if your indirect fire accidentally destroys an ambulance, you are penalised. I am sure the opponent would do a PR shot of the "inhumanity of your actions", while knowing it was not delibarate...

That's the negatives, not that serious imho. Somewhat Bad, yes, but not outright Ugly, right?

As for The Good, I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

I really liked the additional capability the medics do to boost your fighting capability. I always play (as most everyone else too I guess) with CC optional rule on, so this is just another layer of TLC a commander should give to their troops. Added functionality, not just eye candy.

Added difficulty, too. Like with Battalion Aid Stations, it took for some planning to have them near but not too near the front lines. Especially as they have a 100 AP load / unload cost, the risk of losing them to enemy is real.

As for medics, having them on an out-of-LOS hex just behind the front line works very well with my practice of rotating disrupted units out of front line to recover. Stretcher bearers were kept busy, while the recovered platoons became available sooner than without medics.

All the above could be simulated with placing your leader there too, but this way you can actually free your battalion leaders to be much more active with their combat duties, instead of being stuck behind the lines to boost disrupted troops.

Caveat: as the medical units are leaders, they need to sit on a proper level of the OOB. Unless you want to dedicate the medics for their parent units only, they all need to sit on a top level. I provided the scenaro designers with Coy, Bn, Regt and Div OOBs, but they should remember to distribute these units within the OOB to have them with any effect. For the scenario I provided for test, I put them all on top level, so they will help any wounded units regardless of their organization.

The download is available here:

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...#pid374262

There's a scenario there to test them too, the scenario description mentioning the inclusion of medical units, per popular demand.

Those interested to give them a shot, the download includes medical capabilities for Axis and Allied Russia, Axis and Allied Germany, Axis and Allied Finland, and EF US and EF UK troops the EFFB mod includes.


Thanks to Jason for encryptions, and to Mike Amos and Stefan / call sign Panther for their help with 2D and 3D bitmaps.

For 2D zoomed out, I used the NATO symbol of a cross inside a square with unit specific variations. For 2D zoomed in, the aid stations and hospitals are derivations of HQ symbols, with red cross instead of radio.

Let me know what you think! Go easy on me though, this was a lot of work

[Ashcloud]

AWESOME!

[Crossroads]

Thanks! Forgot to mention, this "patch" is backward compatible, so you can continue to play any EFFB or EF scenario also with this patchlevel enabled. No existing units touched with this one either.

[John Given]

wow Petri, you have really done us proud!

There are a few things I wanted to comment on, so here goes;

"The recovery of disrupted units into their normal status is to simulate them being relieved of their wounded comrades."

That's a good way of looking at it - yes.

"these units are leaders. There is no separate way to present morale boost. As such, they can of course perform other duties the Unit type=Commander units can do. As leaders, you don't see the unit bitmap in unit info, but a leader pic instead. As leaders, they can spot too."

I was afraid of that, but if it can't be helped than it can't be helped. On the other hand, since medic-class units won't usually be right on the front lines, any enemy units they see should will be minimized.

"if you see them used in offence, they are legitimate targets. For this reason, their VP value is zero."

Considering their latent combat-boost ability, which is 'fixed' in place, I suppose this is the best compromise.

"if an enemy field hospital is left behind your advancing forces, they can be captured into POWs with an assault without a negative result for victory score."

I agree with this mainly because they can spot - although I would prefer a 'gentleman's agreement' on not using medical units for spotting purposes, this is again, I think, the best compromise. Also, it would be rather silly to capture an enemy hospital and LOSE points, so I agree with you again, Petri.

a. "Added difficulty, too. Like with Battalion Aid Stations, it took for some planning to have them near but not too near the front lines. Especially as they have a 100 AP load / unload cost, the risk of losing them to enemy is real."

b. "As for medics, having them on an out-of-LOS hex just behind the front line works very well with my practice of rotating disrupted units out of front line to recover. Stretcher bearers were kept busy, while the recovered platoons became available sooner than without medics."

c. "All the above could be simulated with placing your leader there too, but this way you can actually free your battalion leaders to be much more active with their combat duties, instead of being stuck behind the lines to boost disrupted troops."

A,B, and C (letter emphasis mine) are the three prime reasons why I brought the medic unit idea to the club in the first place. Thank you, Petri.

"Caveat: as the medical units are leaders, they need to sit on a proper level of the OOB. Unless you want to dedicate the medics for their parent units only, they all need to sit on a top level. I provided the scenaro designers with Coy, Bn, Regt and Div OOBs, but they should remember to distribute these units within the OOB to have them with any effect. For the scenario I provided for test, I put them all on top level, so they will help any wounded units regardless of their organization."

Yes, and I brought this up in the discussion threads last month. It actually occurred to me when KKR mentioned that medics would heal any units, not just the ones they are 'attached' to.

The main reason for all of this - to add fun, variety, and more tactical options - the very core of our hobby.

[Crossroads]

Glad you liked it John. I obviously forgot to name you in the credits, so I will do it here instead

All we need now is new scenarios to try them out!

[Mr. Guberman]

New units are always great.

What is beggared here, however, is the long standing discussion about time scale. Many cats here, know my opinion on that.

A 20 turn game is "1 hour" of time at 6 minutes. I've made scens that are three days long compressed to 50 or 60 turns...so maybe.

No opinion here, just an observation. As always, I love the modders, et al.

Just something to think about. It would take over an hour to get dudes back to Med, and then rally them, if not days. Remember, "1 day" is 120 turns.

Cheers
Gubi

---

my bad...a 20 turn game is "2 hours"

Cheers
Town Drunk

[Crossroads]

Mr G., the idea for this scale is that a shot out platoon can hand over their wounded, and then be able to return to duty with their wounded handed over. Instead of taking care / evacuating the wounded themselves. That is why they would be out of disrupted status quicker.

The wounded are not supposed to be coming back, but left with medics or aid station for evac.

Hope that makes sense.

[Crossroads]

Forgot to mention;

Discussion is all good, but what I would really like to see with "Feedback Needed" sign holstered up is to have actual feedback of blitzers having played a scenario with the said units.

There's a version of **Crusaders at Hango available with Medics for both sides, here:

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...#pid374270

Feel free to create test scenarios of your own if you like too. OOB Editor has the units, like mentioned, just distribute them properly so that they are on a high-enough level.

EF:FB install needed first, of course.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Playing around with game scale is not a good idea. Not at all. Believe what you wish, it is not what the game's scale is about.

Adding medical units is out of scale. Not a good idea either due to the fact that it messes with an already in scale and balanced morale system.

My



HSL

[Crossroads]

Sorry Ed I don't agree with you about the scale. They fit the scale as well as most anything the JTCS've got?

Size wise it's about medical platoons, medic squads, aid stations etc. Six minutes per turn: add the time for the disrupted platoon to move to hex with say Medics, who'd then take the wounded to stretchers for evac. A minimum time of 12 minutes for platoon dashing out 250 m with their casualties, and handing them over for evac. Another six minutes at earliest, and they are back in line. Makes sense to me.

I can perfectly appreciate not everyone likes having medics. Heck, I don't like AF. Another feature that can fit or can't fit the scale. As with almost anything, this scale allows for an interpretation for or against.

I am sure if someone'd come with an idea now that the game should have individual leaders, that boost morale, improve battle results, or enhance the HQ supply radius there'd be a discussion about scale. Still, they've been here since the beginning so I guess not many think about them.

Medics are just leaders, medics squads can be replaced with coy leaders for same effect. Same scale.

But I don't want to sidetrail this. Medical units are now available in two mods, and even with one scenario each. Those willing to experiment how they affect the playing experience can do so. Those who don't want to, well it is easier to avoid them than to actually see them in action.

And that is just fine.