How to Start Playing PzC Games Properly? Any newbie guides?

[pokeytrev]

I have been playing some of the PzC games on and off over the last several years, and by playing I mean firing up a scenario and quitting after a few turns. I have played a few PBEM games with others here, and had a good deal of fun in the process.

I am very interested in the maps and game systems available for the PzC titles, but coming from a non-wargaming background, I often struggle to understand how most veteran players get invested in a game and create strategies around the particular scenario they are playing.

Anyway, to the question at hand: what are some good ways to get into the PzC titles and learning how to play the games as they are meant to be played? Are there particular titles or other things to look for when starting out?

[Kool Kat]

I have been playing some of the PzC games on and off over the last several years, and by playing I mean firing up a scenario and quitting after a few turns. I have played a few PBEM games with others here, and had a good deal of fun in the process.

I am very interested in the maps and game systems available for the PzC titles, but coming from a non-wargaming background, I often struggle to understand how most veteran players get invested in a game and create strategies around the particular scenario they are playing.

Anyway, to the question at hand: what are some good ways to get into the PzC titles and learning how to play the games as they are meant to be played? Are there particular titles or other things to look for when starting out?

Gent: 

You may find my post - "PzC Tips and Tactics" helpful.

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=70089

[pokeytrev]

Gent: 

You may find my post - "PzC Tips and Tactics" helpful.

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=70089

Oh yes, I have visited and read over that thread a few times. In fact, that thread is partially responsible for catching my interest in the game again :)

[Xaver]

1- you need know how you can win, if you need capture objetives only or you need a positive balance between kills and casualties.

2- "read" the map, you need know how use it to made first point possible, specially be carefull with water obstacles, bridges and bottle necks, sometimes a hex with a bunker in a key position made better attack in a worst position to dont waste a lot of time and resources with no 100% success.

3- know your troops and what they can do and think that a bad tactic in attack could be a great tactic in defense, for example stack units with different morale values is bad in attack when you are storming enemy with assaults BUT in defense is a must have to improve your defense, usually quality lacks quantity and oposite.

4- know if you are going to need reserve units for other roles like flank guard, rear cover... ont allways use all into attack or all to defend a position is a good idea because short route is not allways faster route.

5- allways have a plan and try follow it, you need countermeasures and have reserves if is possible to deal with tactical and even operational problems but a 180º change in your plan in the middle.... result of a counterorder is disorder.

In general all titles are good to learn play because every title offer different situations, for example east titles are more focused in high mobility combat in more open terrain with lots of units, west is more restricted in terrain, Pacific is closer to west but with a lot more bloody combats... but you can find titles like Kursk that is very nasty like El-Alamein and titles like France40 with more open and mobile combat.

I think people recommend Smolensk 41 and Kharkov 42, i think Budapest 45 is another good option and with gold versions France 40 and Bulge 44 are improved a lot (specially France 40 where you can find a preview of Scheltd 44 but set in 1940 fight) but maybe if you like or know very well a battle-campaign you can try it and test all you know about it.

[Mr Grumpy]

I don't think you can enjoy these games if you don't know what going on with the game engine, so my advice is to read the rules and before asking questions play the smaller scenarios to see which features make sense and which don't, you can then post questions on the forum.

After a couple of games read the rules again as it is amazing what you forget, as a neebie you obviously will be easy to beat but as your understanding of the system grows you will become a more skilled opponent.

Unfortunately some of the understanding of the system will be derived from just playing and getting a "feel" for which tactics work and which do not, there is no short cut here every time you think you know everything you will find there is another level to take your knowledge to, but for me the learning process was all part of the fun as I was always curious as to how things worked and just kept asking the experienced guys to explain what I didn't understand. 

The only thing no one can help with is not being the type of player who doesn't learn from his mistakes, I have seen this quite a bit over the years and never quite understood why the "penny never dropped" that if what you are doing is not effective try something else, if you are playing an experienced opponent you can learn quite a bit from watching their replays or if you are playing a mirrored game seeing how they handled the same forces you had in a totally different way.


Once the system gets you hooked you just want to keep on playing...…... 

[Xaver]

Well, the only way to learn is playing and here you are going allways find things you didnt notice before... but a little "read" before playing prevent you notice something unexpected when you cant do something you want or when enemy do something you dont want 

In PzC is a basic must have for me isolate-disrupt-assault, this help you win in medium to long range scens but every scen is different and every battle is a new world to explore.

For example one of the must have in game is dont use HQ in combat... well, in one battle i used german regimental HQ to strenght a defensive position because i need some extra turns to reform south line, doing this i have that time and enemy didnt notice i was retreating in mass under his nose... if i dont earn that extra turns i could find my units doing a lot longer and not 100% sure to complete retreat and enemy could appear earlier in an area i simple has totally exposed (i moved all my mobile reserves to made a masive counterattack in enemy main attack rear).

Be flexible is important, in other battle i manage to practically leave one flank totally undefended using a river as my main defensive active and with all i move to the other flank first i stop enemy attack and 2nd i counter and destroy spearhead in many small pocket battles.

Other point is dont focus in one type of unit, not allways the armored units are the key to win, infantry could be the winner hand and armor simple be a secondary actor... to win you dont need allways fight, timing and conquest the key points you need could have a great impact i a battle.


In general to win you need know is how win, what you have to do it and how use it.

[pokeytrev]

Thanks you two - great advice! I learn from each battle and improve, so that's not a concern.

The system is complex yet not too complex to learn from, but I definitely do need to do a bit more reading. I am playing the Royal Dragoon campaign on PzB Normandy, and was annihilated by the germans the first try. I did better on my second, but you only have 10 turns, and I didn't even get near the 2 objectives on the bottom of the map. On the last try I bypassed everything with my first wave of armor to snatch the last two objectives, and got to the bottom only to find an unknown type of infantry that destroyed my tanks-- should have brought infantry with me! I took all but two objectives and took too many casualties. I did get a feel for which units to move up to bunkers, when to assault, and other things.

[Mowgli]

I think that the most important thing any new PzCmp player needs to understand is "zones of control" and how to build a proper line. Isolation is the key mechanic in the game (isolation + low ammo = -2 morale, -0.5 fire power, -0.5/0.75 in assault; movement locked), so you need to understand how to prevent it in order to have any chance against a human opponent at all. If you can't build a line, you usually have to fall back.

Understand that any curve/bulge in your line is bad as it increases the number of units you need to keep up a cohesive front.

Of course bottlenecks (/major rivers) are very valuable here. The shorter the front you need to cover with your line, the fewer of your units are bound by the defense.

Me and a few friends of mine are currently discovering the PzCmp series. I've made a small basic guide on control zones. It's in german, but maybe it's interesting for you nevertheless:

Kontrollzonen_Miniguide.pdf

Here is a little test from one of my PBEMs against larsonney. Can you spot the two zoc-related mistakes by the soviet player (brownish units)?
[note that there is a pretty strong fighting unit underneath the soviet headquarter in the south (dark grey unit box)]

Solution:

These are major mistakes that can easily cost you the whole game.

[Xaver]

Well, the north isolated is easy to break using armored units or moving some infantry to create a scape route and even is possible made the motorized infantry used to isolate be isolated at same time.

But is true that stack all that infantry in same hexes is a big mistake when you only have in inmediate rear HQ, a better deployment of armor units reduce the problem and a better infantry deployment cut off it apart made defense stronger VS only infantry assaults.

The south soviet deployment weakness is the big infantry stack, if it was BEHIND the river using it as barrier soviet player can liberate armored units to work as reserve or to improve defense where is needed.

In North... with what i see the soviet units covering their divisional HQ needs be behind the river to short the defensive line and made it stronger apart they are closer to support the city defenders if the retreat or to cut off an isolation situation to create a scape route.

[pokeytrev]

Mowgli,
Than you for the very informative post with examples (excellent screenshots too, no less). I didn't even know that such a small and easy-to-make hole in your lines could make such a large difference. I knew supply lines and being isolated were a thing, but I didn't think one hex would play such a significant role. Now that I think about it, one hex in PzC is 1 kilometer, so one hex truly is plenty of space between units where isolation makes sense. I also downloaded your guide and could understand just enough to make sense of some of it. German has a lot of words that I can translate just by sound or spelling, though I did take a couple of semesters back in junior high way back when.

Out of curiosity, which game in the series do the screenshots come from?