Modern Talking & Bruce Lee in a Russian APC - What could go wrong ?!?

WargameGeneral · (This post was last modified: 05-19-2020, 12:48 AM by WargameGeneral.)

I found this documentary on the Soviet-Afghan War last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfqAHOpGd0g

31 years later and it looks like nothing changed in Afghanistan...

What is your experience with the related SB title on the Soviet-Afghan War?

I noticed that Ozgur Budak, known for some of the most popular SB titles, was one of the scenario designers.

What is the average size of these scenarios?

There also appears to be a mod called "The Long War" (could not find the download link). What is that all about?

Thanks for your feedback! Helmet Smile

Embis · (This post was last modified: 05-20-2020, 05:17 AM by Embis.)

(05-19-2020, 12:47 AM)WargameGeneral Wrote: There also appears to be a mod called "The Long War" (could not find the download link). What is that all about?

Hi,
There are a number of full Mods for the SB series:

Red Star over Europe: a 3rd world war 1980's mod, Nato V Soviet Union (base game: Vietnam)
Africa at War: based on some of the post WW2 African conflicts (base game:Pacific War)
Arab Israeli War ...err... The Arab Israeli war (base game: Soviet Afghan war)
The Long War, The more recent Afghanistan conflict (base game: Soviet Afghan War)
World at War, covers Chechnya, Iran/Iraq war, Sierra Leone, various late 20th Century conflicts. (Base Game is Pacific War

I dont think you will find any of them publically available, The author of them removed them from the public domain.

......But..... if you PM me I may be able to help you Rolling Eyes

Embis · 05-20-2020, 05:28 AM,

(05-19-2020, 12:47 AM)WargameGeneral Wrote: What is your experience with the related SB title on the Soviet-Afghan War?

I noticed that Ozgur Budak, known for some of the most popular SB titles, was one of the scenario designers.

What is the average size of these scenarios?

I like Soviet Afghan war, Ozgur was certainly an excellent scenario designer and the scenarios here are up to his usual high standard If this is a period you have an interest in then I would highly recommend it.

As for the size of the scenarios.. they are about the same size as in any other SB game, they don't stand out from the rest in that regard, no huge ones no tiny ones and.....lots of.....average sized ones. Smile

**Warhorse** · 05-20-2020, 06:22 AM,

Embis, don't forget the Forgotten War now, is a full one. Is based on the KW, but so much additions it is indeed apart from the standard!

Jeff Conner · 05-22-2020, 03:22 AM,

Good Morning

Africa at War was done by Frank Harmon and should still be floating around in the public domain somewhere. Frank was a Marine who served in the first Gulf War and he didn't think that SB was bloody enough. So the fire values in Africa at War are a bit higher and the results are noticeably different. IronX, at least I think that was his handle, did the other mods. He was talented, but he had some disagreements with people higher up the food chain than myself and went away less than happy. I am sure there is someone here from the old days who knows more about that situation than myself.

One of the things I like about both SAW and AAW is that they have vehicles, but not lots of heavy tanks. SB was designed as an infantry game (Vietnam was the first title) with vehicles as only an accessory to the main event. The overlap of the two was never very satisfying, probably the weakest part of the game in my opinion, especially when armor assaults infantry. If you haven't already discovered, tanks are pretty much impervious to infantry in assaults; the only risk being the chance of immobilization if assaulting into a covered hex. But titles like SAW and AAW have lighter armored vehicles in more abundant numbers and they can not bulldoze their way through infantry. And as I have said before, Ozgur was the best scenario designer that I ever worked with and Frank wasn't that far behind. I highly recommend both titles. And I am somewhat biased as SAW was the first title that I worked on.

Jeff

WargameGeneral · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2020, 06:52 AM by WargameGeneral.)

I guess I am sold on SAW then... Helmet Wink

I am wondering why they did not choose SAW as the base game for the "Africa at War" mod considering the same weapon systems of that time frame.

But I guess the maps were more important ?!?

Jeff Conner · 05-22-2020, 07:37 AM,

(05-22-2020, 06:51 AM)WargameGeneral Wrote: I guess I am sold on SAW then...

I am wondering why they did not choose SAW as the base game for the "Africa at War" mod considering the same weapon systems of that time frame.

But I guess the maps were more important ?!?

If I remember correctly, it had as much or more to do with the number of folders available for the participating forces as it did for the maps. I don't know why, but apparently, you can't add additional folders as they are hard-coded in the engine. Or something like that. And since Frank changed the values for most, if not all, of the weapons in the database, he wouldn't have gained all that much from using SAW. In some of the conversations I had with Frank, he mentioned that being under fire from a 14.5 mm machine gun was a life changing experience. So he wanted to reflect this in his project. The powers that be wanted consistency across titles, so we were asked to stay with the basis that had been developed for Vietnam.

**Warhorse** · 05-23-2020, 05:41 AM,

Hi Jeff, adding countries is very easy, I did it for my Korean War mod, and currently for all the Blitzkrieg countries for Pacific War, for my upcoming WW2 Mod. Maps are transferable as well, I pulled everything from my AoTR and dumped it into Pacific War, since the dates cover the whole war. My database is getting huge as well!

WargameGeneral · 05-23-2020, 07:56 AM,

(05-22-2020, 03:22 AM)Jeff Conner Wrote: One of the things I like about both SAW and AAW is that they have vehicles, but not lots of heavy tanks. SB was designed as an infantry game (Vietnam was the first title) with vehicles as only an accessory to the main event. The overlap of the two was never very satisfying, probably the weakest part of the game in my opinion, especially when armor assaults infantry.

I have heard that point mentioned before. Would that be so difficult to solve with an update of the SB line?

Found another interesting documentary last night which focuses more on the US perspective and involvement in the SAW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJs7udS-fZ4&app=desktop

Imagine the world today without that conflict ever happening... Helmet Rolleyes

Jeff Conner · 05-23-2020, 09:11 AM,

(05-23-2020, 05:41 AM)Warhorse Wrote: Hi Jeff, adding countries is very easy, I did it for my Korean War mod, and currently for all the Blitzkrieg countries for Pacific War, for my upcoming WW2 Mod. Maps are transferable as well, I pulled everything from my AoTR and dumped it into Pacific War, since the dates cover the whole war. My database is getting huge as well!

Since I never tried to do a whole lot of modding back in the day, I can't speak to the folders issue. But I did try to move maps from another title into Africa at War to make a scenario. They wouldn't open. My guess is that when JTS decided that they were done with SB, they removed all of that proprietary coding and released the map editor, something that they had held onto very tightly in the past. I never had access to it. Maps for the titles I worked on were always made by someone else.