Gamey?

[Copper]

Leto]


*What is truly annoying is when someone corrects your spelling or bores you with proper use of the english language... probably the worst offense of all...*

'English' should be capitalized.

ROFL!!

: )

Leto

[Fullhouse]

RE: Pre ploted artillery.

Some seem to be forgetting that you cant actualy pre plot artilery in ME QBs so the discusion about there gameyness only refers to scenaros and Atack/defend QBs.

In scenarios I think alot depends on the scenario and the blatant obviousness of the set up zones thereby. Also alot could depend on the briefiing and the assumed intel of the defneders. This would have been a good switch to include in scenario desighn, the allowance of first turn pre plots.

Perhaps the scenario designer can influence this by how he sets the scenario as either attack/defend or ME, I am not sure if you can pre plot in scenario MEs, and maybe this would be a subtle way of scen designers having some controll over this aspect.

I think if you are playing an op, then first turn barrages after the first battle are totaly fine as the intelignece aspect is much more modeled and the defender is going to totaly expect attack and have a good idea of the direction.

As for Attack/defend QBs, I think its totaly un gamey for the attacker to do a pre planned barrage. As for the defender I am unsure. Yes the russians did barrage the germans at the start of Kursk, but this was mostly counter battery fire, e,g, they fired to suppress the german artilery it was also done at an entirely operational level. This was also the exception to the rule. It only occured because thanks to a spy infiltrating the very top ranks of german command they had total knowledge of the german battle plan.

Obvioulsy this is beyond the scope of the QB to model. I think allowing the defender to preplot with a biult in delay is perhaps a good compromise.

Say 5 minutes for probes (the defender is less likely to have inteligence about fist contact recon from the enemy)

4 minutes for attacks and 3 minutes for assaults.

Just a suggestion but one I may try in the future.

Its a shame that there is no modeling of pre battle inteligence as it is infact a very important aspect that would have impacted greatly on a battle at the tactical level.

[Extraordinarius]

[Kelen]

The only real thing that I hate and consider 'gamey' are last turn flag rushes. Yes, you can expect them and try and plan for them, but they're still difficult to stop.

And yes, I have stopped playing opponets who continue to use those tactics. Apart from agreeing some rules up front that it the only way you're going to stop people using them.

[Skeld (FGM)]

Last turn flag rushes...sometimes that is the only alternative to try to turn a loss into a draw or better. Are there actually players who preplan a last turn flag rush? Doesn't using the variable turn ending eliminate most occurances of LTFR's? Yes they are cheesy and IRL you probably wouldn't see a commander risk all to grab a little more when he knows that the big Gamemaster is gonna yell STOP in the next minute or two. But if its what I gotta do at the risk of the scenario not playing out like a "real" battle then I'm gonna do it .

[Jobu88]

Last-turn flag rushes will always be a problem in a game with a turn limit, even if the limit is variable. No real-life commander would rush to take an objective if he was going to get wiped out 2 minutes later, and guess what? He wouldn't rush to take it if he knew he would be wiped out 30 minutes later, either. A tactical game with a time limit will always have that problem.

And as someone pointed out above if your choices are to accept a defeat, or make a desparate rush for the flags late in a game, what do you have to lose?

I think it's just a problem that will never go away. Like Al Gore.

Ok, Ok I apologize for that gratuitous and inappropriate political comment & anyone who may have been offended by it.

[RedDevil]

I would think that is why this is a "game" or "simulation" rather than a real life situation.

As with any game, the paradigms of RL always contradict with the mechanics designed to simulate the action. We have to accept that this is a game and most participants are absolved to try and win, rather than submit to the obvious outcome as percieved in real life.

Last minute rushes are a variety of this desire to achieve better than the obvious outcome, because the pixel warriors have no costs or penalties accurred for the wanton misuse of them. The game ends and so does their use and the only subjective result is the outcome.

It is not gamey IMO however, bascially the defender should have not allowed themselves to be in such a predictament and if they did, they should accept the result as a tribute to their OPPS desire and a training to themselves for future actions.

[Colonel Talvela]

Any game I play - and I prefer non-variable endings - my goal is not to get the flags, but to prevent my opponent from having any influence on the flags. It is a slightly different mindset, and I think if you play that way you dont need to worry about last minute flag rushes.


And if you own all the flags and are just camping on them for 10 minutes waiting for your opponent to show himself then you deserve to have the ill-affects of a last minute flag rush. If you just got the flags two minutes before the end, then you cant really consider it a last minute flag rush.

So I guess I dont really consider them gamey.

[Kelen]

[Jobu88]