Can a T-80 get airborne ?

[Vesku]

I've read that Leo 2 can spot the exhaust of tank when the tank itself is behind cover in which case soft cover isn't cover at all. MBT fails to take account thermal smokes which blocks TI. Maybe it's better to stick with pre 80s equipment. :)

[matxer]

Isn't VIRSS the smoke which is supposed to block TI ?
It is implemented in SPMBT.

[KraMax (SPR)]

VIRSS - protects only from shot ATGM... For TI is a usual smoke

[matxer]

Thx, good to know !
I'm just beginning a 2007 battle. My opponent are I believed it was super smoke vs TI...

Makes me think that in 2007, every 'big' country has TI. So one can play Mother Russia.
Israel even has 50 vision in 2007. Is it an edge (in the game I mean) ?

[KraMax (SPR)]

vision 50 or it is more put to units with a radar. In game the radar is realised incorrectly since the radar can see only moving units, and in game he sees even units which did not move.

[wulfir]

If an OOB mod could be done to give the WP countries TI, even though they don't have it in real life, at least it would balance the game.

Give the WP more points... :whis:

/wulfir - who doesn't believe in playbalance much... :cool:

[shortreengage]

So you were in the tank 'business'. Tell us: is TI a real advantage ?
As I wrote above, the simlutation of Leopards 2 clearly gives a big boost to the gunner and tank commander even during day light.

TI is an extreme advantage. In SP it only sees 2000 meters. IRL it of course is much more than that. I tracked what I think was a BRDM at
7000 M+ and could see a column of vehicles beyond my ability to Lase(rangefinder) 10000+ M.

Everything with TI is dependant on the DIFFERENCE in temperature of the target and the air and terrain surrounding it. So in daytime things like camoflage that would hide the target is ineffective vs TI. It just makes things more obvious especially at longer ranges. Moving infantry should be able to be spotted much more easily than in the game.

That said, somethings can defeat TI:
Most are weather related and can't be simulated in SP.

Dense fog, dust or snow or fire. This also affects the Laser Range Finder (LRF) Can't lase through that stuff if it's too dense. Can't lase through smoke either.

Heavy rains.

Extreme heat in rocky or debris strewn areas. Thermal reflection off rocks create false targets.

Dual spectrum smoke. Never experienced that but it should work in theory. It is the special smoke that KRAMAX mentioned.

A cunning diciplined crew that has shut their engine down (and heater) and is lying in wait.....

As for the other night sights...I've used:
"Passive" sights, so called starlight scopes. Good out to 1500M at best VIS 30 in game. And that is being generous.

Infrared (IR) sights very very poor. Usless unless used with an IR searchlight. VIS 20 in game.

Daylight sights with white light illumination. Searchlights require the use of at least two tanks. One to illuminate and one to fire. Very dangerous business even on a gunnery range as sometimes the firing tank may follow the searchlight the wrong way

Also mortar illumination and daylight sights. Not simulated in SP.

[shortreengage]

vision 50 or it is more put to units with a radar. In game the radar is realised incorrectly since the radar can see only moving units, and in game he sees even units which did not move.

GSRs are also poorly modeled in the game. You can't shoot anything with a radar. They are vis 50 or 60 in the game but 2nd generation TI is 50 in game as well. As for the vis the game gives 2500-3000 meters. The small manpacked AN/PPS15 could "see" 5000M and the vehicle carried AN/PPS-5 could "see" 10000M . I recommend using 2 man teams with small arms only to simulate GSR teams.

[wulfir]

A friend of mine from the days of FBU (a Swedish volunteer organisation for additional training of people in various command positions, in our case section and platoon level) opted to make the army his dayjob.

He is currently serving in the armoured branch, he claims TI gives mech a tremendous edge not only vs armoured targets but also against leg infantry units - like the Swedish "Jaeger formations"* who usually considers themselves the cream of the armed forces.

Now, in Sweden every unit from artillery to signals have a story of how they beat the "Jaegers" and he is probably a bit biased but it would seem as infantry out in the bush have some difficulty hiding form the TI sights.



*The majority of Jaeger units were a sort of stay behind force tasked with recce and disruption of enemy supply lines. They were not meant to slug it out with the Soviet armoured troops.

[Weasel]

A friend of mine from the days of FBU (a Swedish volunteer organisation for additional training of people in various command positions, in our case section and platoon level) opted to make the army his dayjob.

He is currently serving in the armoured branch, he claims TI gives mech a tremendous edge not only vs armoured targets but also against leg infantry units - like the Swedish "Jaeger formations"* who usually considers themselves the cream of the armed forces.

Now, in Sweden every unit from artillery to signals have a story of how they beat the "Jaegers" and he is probably a bit biased but it would seem as infantry out in the bush have some difficulty hiding form the TI sights.



*The majority of Jaeger units were a sort of stay behind force tasked with recce and disruption of enemy supply lines. They were not meant to slug it out with the Soviet armoured troops.

Well he is quite right in that TI picks up everything, it all glows like a light stick.

Now with that said you can say to your armoured friend, from an ex tank driver, that tanks can win ground, but only infantry can hold it. Without infantry both tanks and artillery are beat.

TI is nice, but if the infantry are moving using dead ground like they should then the TI isn't going to pick up squat. As for the arty, well all arty needs a FOO to spot for them, and what does a FOO need to cover his ass? INFANTRY!